Wikimedia Foundation/Comitê de Capítulos/Emails 2009

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E-mail do Comitê sobre nosso status

From: 	Anders Wennersten <anders.wennersten@bonetmail.com>
To: 	Chapters Committee list <chaptercommittee-l@lists.wikimedia.org>, thomasdesouzabuckup@gmail.com, eris@cecm.usp.br
Subject: 	Re: [Chapters] Brazilian chapter's bylaws
Date: 	Wed, 13 May 2009 05:56:38 +0200 (00:56 BRT)


The requirements for future chapters state that "The chapter must have a 
legal structure/corporation that is legally independent from the 
Wikimedia Foundation." as well as the Guidelines for future chapters, 
which outline in greater detail the form of the legal structure every 
chapter is supposed to create.
The preparation team of Wikimedia Brasil has Not formed a legal entity 
and you have, after the approval process, stated that you do not plan to 
do so

The team of Wikimedia Brasil has thus not been able to sign a Chapters 
Agreement and it will not be possible for you to do so in the absence of 
a legal entity.

At the Chapter meetup in Berlin, Austin raised this major concern with 
you, but we have not received any input from you indicating a wish and a 
plan to form a legal entity.

We in ChapCom are now in the process of considering to recommend the 
Board that the recognition as official chapter of Wikimedia Brasil is 
rescinded and that the interim permission to use Wikimedia trademarks 
pending signature of a Chapters Agreement be revoked.

We send this mail to the team of Wikimedia Brasil, in order for you to 
give us any relevant feedback before we go ahead, where of course the 
important.piece of information would be that you are reconsidering your 
position re having a legal entity and have plans to form one.

We would like an answer from you before May 18th.

If you keep your current set up, there are still possibilities for you 
to have support and some type of recognition, even if you will not be a 
chapter. If you want to discuss these options please contact Cary Bass 
cary@wikimedia.org directly as these alternatives are outside the scope 
of ChapCom

Anders Wennersten
ChapCom

Nossa resposta coletiva ao E-mail

From: 	Alexandre Hannud Abdo <abdo@usp.br>
To: 	Chapters Committee list <chaptercommittee-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Cc: 	Anders Wennersten <anders.wennersten@bonetmail.com>, thomasdesouzabuckup@gmail.com, nevinhoalarcao@gmail.com
Subject: 	Re: [Chapters] Brazilian chapter's bylaws
Date: 	Mon, 18 May 2009 01:18:21 -0300


Ni!

Dear members of ChapCom,

 We are delighted to hear from you.

 Our community was getting ready to contact you, awaiting the conclusion
 of the discussion over the new Chapter Agreement, which we are 
following closely.

 But since you have come forward ahead of us, let's seize the day!

 It runs strongly among us that there is no reason to form a legal 
entity in Brazil right now. We were confident and transparent on that 
during the Chapters Meeting, reflecting the position of our community as
 a whole, which remains adamant.

 In fact, given our main concern was the broader community's reception
 to our choices, the few volunteers who were still considering 
incorporation have changed their minds after the enthusiastic input we 
had during the Chapters Meeting from both the chapters and the 
foundation.

 To remind, there we presented[1] our first Chapter Report[2] and 
discussed the idea of a Statement of Principles[3], which would replace 
the role of a Bylaws in our case. We have, since, fully translated our 
statement into English[3].

 The essential idea is that our community manages relationships and a 
set of values and principles, which by themselves work towards achieving
 the goals of a regular chapter through the action of autonomous 
volunteers.

 And the essential observation is that our Chapter Report reveals how 
well this is already working in practice. (Though we excuse ourselves 
for using the term 'non-chapter' in the report, which was mostly due to 
the heat of some arguments among us).

 Our understanding is that we might be in a particular situation of our 
country and the community willing to foster the foundation's goals here. 

 But it also might be an interesting perspective for other communities 
where similar passions and difficulties arise. We heard from many that 
India is quite similar in that respect.

 To be clear, we understand our community as a functional Chapter.

 Only it is supported by an open social movement instead of an 
incorporated organization - and we are aware these terms imply a 
different agreement on trademark use, one without a capital "A".

 In that spirit, we do not consider our request so much outside the 
scope of the Chapters Committee, and encourage you to participate.

 We kindly invite all members of the Chapters Committee to read our 
Statement of Principles[3], and share your comments and ideas with us.

 All your observations will be forwarded unedited to the Foundation, 
unless requested not to, once we start discussing this possibility of 
becoming a Chapter.

[1] 
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Chapters_meeting_2009/Preparation/Wikimedia_Brasil

[2] 
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Brasil/Chapter_Report_2008

[3] 
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Brasil/Statement_of_Principles

 Well, this is already a very long e-mail already =)

 Let's hear from you now!

 Best wishes to everyone,

ale, thomas, Nevinho and other
volunteers for the brazilian chapter
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Brasil/en
~~

Resposta do ChapCom

From: 	Anders Wennersten <anders.wennersten@bonetmail.com>
To: 	Alexandre Hannud Abdo <abdo@usp.br>
Cc: 	Chapters Committee list <chaptercommittee-l@lists.wikimedia.org>, thomasdesouzabuckup@gmail.com, nevinhoalarcao@gmail.com
Subject: 	Re: [Chapters] Brazilian chapter's bylaws
Date: 	Tue, 19 May 2009 09:35:19 +0200 (04:35 BRT)


ChapCom has now send a recommendation to the Board that the recognition as official chapter of Wikimedia Brasil is 
rescinded and that the interim permission to use Wikimedia trademarks 
pending signature of a Chapters Agreement be revoked.

ChapCom do not have the mandate to define Chapter in other ways then defined by the Board, so we are not in a position to consider a deviation from the prerequisites for a chapter as you propose.

We wish you all well with your encouraging activities that you have started. As stated in the earlier mail, if you want to have some type of official recognition in your activities, we recommend you to get in contact with WMF and Car Bass to discuss this, if and when you will not be an official chapter any longer.

We also welcome you back för applying för chapter status by ChapCom if you reconsider and set up a legally recognized association as a base for your activities. 

Anders Wennersten
 ChapCom


recommend the 
Board that the recognition as official chapter of Wikimedia Brasil is 
rescinded and that the interim permission to use Wikimedia trademarks 
pending signature of a Chapters Agreement be revoked.

Nossa resposta

From: 	Alexandre Hannud Abdo <abdo@usp.br>
To: 	Chapters Committee list <chaptercommittee-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Cc: 	thomasdesouzabuckup@gmail.com, nevinhoalarcao@gmail.com, Anders Wennersten <anders.wennersten@bonetmail.com>
Subject: 	Re: [Chapters] Brazilian chapter's bylaws
Date: 	Tue, 19 May 2009 07:01:25 -0300


Ni!

 Hello Chapcom!

 I tried to be clear on some things, but it seems I might not have been.

 We have perfect understanding that ChapCom, formally and officially,
has nothing to do with us becoming a chapter, and that whatever benefits
from the former process of chapter incorporation are to be rescinded.

 We made, and keep, an invitation to all members of ChapCom to share
your impressions with us about this alternative we presented during the
Chapters Meeting and thoroughly documented in our Presentation, our
Report, and our Statement.

 We would particularly appreciate comments on the Statement, which plays
a central role in our community, as it would in any other wishing to
adopt a similar organization.

 Our hope is that your experience can help us raise ideas, doubts and
issues which would eventually assist us and the foundation in
structuring this new deal.

 At the same time, that this conversation can clear some doubts and give
you a better understanding of our proposal, as such understanding will
become increasingly necessary to keep us all whole.

 So, you're all still invited to talk with us, through e-mails or the
talk pages for those documents[1]. In fact, everyone is!

[1] All resources are linked here:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Brasil/en

 Take care,

ale, thomas, nevinho and other
volunteers for the brazilian chapter
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Brasil/en
~~

Resposta do ChapCom

From: 	Michael Bimmler <mbimmler@gmail.com>
To: 	Chapters Committee list <chaptercommittee-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Cc: 	thomasdesouzabuckup@gmail.com, nevinhoalarcao@gmail.com, abdo@usp.br
Subject: 	Re: [ChapCom] [Chapters] Brazilian chapter's bylaws
Date: 	Tue, 19 May 2009 09:20:00 -0700 (13:20 BRT)


On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 3:01 AM, Alexandre Hannud Abdo <abdo@usp.br> wrote:
        Ni!
        
         Hello Chapcom!
        
         I tried to be clear on some things, but it seems I might not have been.
        
         We have perfect understanding that ChapCom, formally and officially,
        has nothing to do with us becoming a chapter, 
        
Well, then that understanding is not as clear as you think. As a matter of fact, the Chapters Committee is the very committee mandated by the board to see whether an organisation should become a Wikimedia chapter and whether the recognition as Wikimedia chapter of any organisation should be revoked. It expresses its opinion by making recommendations to the board, which in turn passes the effective resolutions. 

However, what we in fact at the moment have nothing to do with is any other status the Wikimedia Foundation may decide to grant to you, ranging from giving you permission to use the trademarks to assigning you some kind of status such as "affiliate" or "partner" (I use this words colloquially, there are to my knowledge no organisations currently that may claim these titles and there are no established procedures to apply for these).

All these questions, you will need to raise with Cary Bass or Mike Godwin. If however you want to discuss again about becoming a chapter, you will need to discuss with us, however after internal discussion, we have now clearly stated that we require a legal structure (incorporation) as an essential condition to become a chapter.

Yours,
Michael
 

-- 
Michael Bimmler
mbimmler@gmail.com

Nossa resposta

From: 	Alexandre Hannud Abdo <abdo@usp.br>
To: 	Chapters Committee list <chaptercommittee-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Cc: 	thomasdesouzabuckup@gmail.com, nevinhoalarcao@gmail.com, Michael Bimmler <mbimmler@gmail.com>
Subject: 	Re: [ChapCom] [Chapters] Brazilian chapter's bylaws
Date: 	Tue, 19 May 2009 18:35:20 -0300


Ni!

 Hello ChapCom!

Michael Bimmler wrote:
>however after internal discussion, we have now clearly stated that we
>require a legal structure (incorporation) as an essential condition to
>become a chapter.

 I'm sorry, but in this case it is you who have not been so clear with
us. I quote Anders:

"ChapCom do not have the mandate to define Chapter in other ways then
defined by the Board"

 Therefore what you (Michael) said is of no consequence: you cannot and
should never accept us as chapter, since what we are proposing, as
stated by yourselves (Anders), can only be decided by the foundation.

 We did not ask you to accept us as a chapter, we only asked for your
advice on what we are doing.

 Again, to be candid clear: we're inviting the members of ChapCom to
share opinions and ideas, to raise questions and issues. Not ChapCom as
an official consultive body for the Foundation.

 As I said in my last e-mail, everyone is invited. We chose to make this
particular invitation to you as a form of recognition for you role as
mediators between the Foundation and groups around the world interested
in joining its efforts, which up to now were the incorporated Chapters.

 For us, as we try to do something new, it would make no sense to ignore
the spirit, if not the letter, of the role of ChapCom.

 The point of our e-mails was to give you a head start and welcome you
to help us if you feel like it, while trying to show the value of
participating, as whatever we become will be part of the overall
structure of Wikimedia the movement.

 So, here we are.

 Take care,

ale, thomas, nevinho and other
volunteers for the brazilian chapter
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Brasil/en
~~